Dienstag, 24. Januar 2006
anders deutsch
urmila, 19:18h
The name of this blog 'anders deutsch' is best translated to 'being German differently'. It is the self definition I chose for myself. Not as a kid but only after people kept asking me what I am. And also then not immediately but after a phase of trying different terms.
Yes, I am 'German'. I have the German citizenship, I have lived most of my life in Germany. This is the country I know best.
No, I am not 'Indian'. I did have the Indian citizenship, I have travelled there, I have relatives and friends there. But the country is still foreign to me, I am a 'foreigner' there.
But somehow, some people would rather consider me 'Indian' than 'German'. So I have to accept that I cannot be purely 'German' and so I became 'German' differently. (Not only in ethnical terms, but that is another issue ...)
The 'German' psychologist Paul Mecheril has formulated the concept of 'Andere Deutsche' (best translated as 'Other Germans'), which captures this quite good and focusses on the process of othering.
See also yeahpope for an example ...
Yes, I am 'German'. I have the German citizenship, I have lived most of my life in Germany. This is the country I know best.
No, I am not 'Indian'. I did have the Indian citizenship, I have travelled there, I have relatives and friends there. But the country is still foreign to me, I am a 'foreigner' there.
But somehow, some people would rather consider me 'Indian' than 'German'. So I have to accept that I cannot be purely 'German' and so I became 'German' differently. (Not only in ethnical terms, but that is another issue ...)
The 'German' psychologist Paul Mecheril has formulated the concept of 'Andere Deutsche' (best translated as 'Other Germans'), which captures this quite good and focusses on the process of othering.
See also yeahpope for an example ...
... comment
san francisco,
Samstag, 24. Juni 2006, 00:08
Do non-natives of India get "Indian"citizenship?
I wondered if people who spent a good many years in India as nonnatives, say Western Europeans or Negroid Africans, are given Indian citizenship? Considering all the minorities of the 1 billion-plus citizens there, their regional differences,, languages and skin colors, this shouldn't be a problem. Aren't Indians known to be exceptionally tolerant and colorblind themselves? Therefore, wouldn the locals of your particular hometown call that man or woman an "Indian" simply because of the new passport?
I think "Indians" (born in India, native stock, not Englishmen there for generations) are some of the most clever, funny and interesting people I've ever met, but I have to admit, if I meet one here in San Francisco on my tourbus who's worked for years in the USA, I still call him/her an "Indian". They don't take offense, and they speak proudly of their heritage, and if they say, "Well, I'm an American now", it's usually with a shrug and a laugh, because they know they are not truly born-and-bred Americans, that they have no intention of changing their religion, customs or cuisine. They are comfortable in both skins. They can be prickly, quick to be offended, but not usually in this regard.
It seems to me that you, sir, are a bit too sensitive on the issue of your identity. Why not just say, "I'm from India, moved here to Germany in year X, worked here, lived there, married here, kids there, whatever... that I like it here in Germany, and I got the German citizenship in year X". This way, you are flattering a German listener, instead of antagonizing him/her into some kind of Jesuitical argument on your true identity. Germans here in USA don't hide their heritage, but simply state how long they've been.
I was born and raised in San Francisco. My parents are from Ireland, and we kids are all proud of that. We have allegiance to the USA, but also to Ireland. I then lived in GErmany for several years, learned German quickly, and enjoyed immensely the German way of life, its food, customs, music, friendliness, hospitality, intellectual traditions, history. Many said I was "vollig verdeutsch". Perhaps with a Swiss accent, or maybe Norwegian? Not really American?
So there's another angle you could take to reduce a bruised ego problem: make a joke to your German listeners, tell them you're working on getting "verdeutsch" but that it's tough when you're from India. I presume your German language skills are topnotch, for that's the best way to win over friends and employers in a new country. Learn their music, the old traditional songs, by heart. Even singing one or two old folksongs warms their hearts when it comes from the mouth of a "foreigner".
Someday I want to go to India and learn Hindu.
I think "Indians" (born in India, native stock, not Englishmen there for generations) are some of the most clever, funny and interesting people I've ever met, but I have to admit, if I meet one here in San Francisco on my tourbus who's worked for years in the USA, I still call him/her an "Indian". They don't take offense, and they speak proudly of their heritage, and if they say, "Well, I'm an American now", it's usually with a shrug and a laugh, because they know they are not truly born-and-bred Americans, that they have no intention of changing their religion, customs or cuisine. They are comfortable in both skins. They can be prickly, quick to be offended, but not usually in this regard.
It seems to me that you, sir, are a bit too sensitive on the issue of your identity. Why not just say, "I'm from India, moved here to Germany in year X, worked here, lived there, married here, kids there, whatever... that I like it here in Germany, and I got the German citizenship in year X". This way, you are flattering a German listener, instead of antagonizing him/her into some kind of Jesuitical argument on your true identity. Germans here in USA don't hide their heritage, but simply state how long they've been.
I was born and raised in San Francisco. My parents are from Ireland, and we kids are all proud of that. We have allegiance to the USA, but also to Ireland. I then lived in GErmany for several years, learned German quickly, and enjoyed immensely the German way of life, its food, customs, music, friendliness, hospitality, intellectual traditions, history. Many said I was "vollig verdeutsch". Perhaps with a Swiss accent, or maybe Norwegian? Not really American?
So there's another angle you could take to reduce a bruised ego problem: make a joke to your German listeners, tell them you're working on getting "verdeutsch" but that it's tough when you're from India. I presume your German language skills are topnotch, for that's the best way to win over friends and employers in a new country. Learn their music, the old traditional songs, by heart. Even singing one or two old folksongs warms their hearts when it comes from the mouth of a "foreigner".
Someday I want to go to India and learn Hindu.
... link
chica,
Samstag, 24. Juni 2006, 03:45
dude
Why not just say, "I'm from India, moved here to Germany in year X, worked here, lived there, married here, kids there, whatever... that I like it here in Germany, and I got the German citizenship in year X".
oh well, maybe because (s)he is not exactly from india, has not moved to germany in year X ... does not live in a new country, doesn't have a bruised ego and is not a foreigner... ???
oh well, maybe because (s)he is not exactly from india, has not moved to germany in year X ... does not live in a new country, doesn't have a bruised ego and is not a foreigner... ???
... link
queerie,
Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2006, 17:02
@ san francisco:
>>It seems to me that you, sir, are a bit too sensitive on the issue of your identity. Why not just say, "I'm from India, moved here to Germany in year X, worked here, lived there, married here, kids there, whatever... that I like it here in Germany, and I got the German citizenship in year X". This way, you are flattering a German listener, instead of antagonizing him/her into some kind of Jesuitical argument on your true identity. Germans here in USA don't hide their heritage, but simply state how long they've been.<<
1. I think it is offensive to assume anyone's gender.
2. I think it is also offensive to assume that the author of this blog has any desire to flatter German readers/listeners. Why on earth should s/he do that?
3. Germany and the USA are very different in regards to immigration, "heritage", and general history. A comparison like yours might thus not make much sense.
4. How is what Germans in the USA do relevant to what the author of this blog does in Germany?
>>So there's another angle you could take to reduce a bruised ego problem: make a joke to your German listeners, tell them you're working on getting "verdeutsch" but that it's tough when you're from India. I presume your German language skills are topnotch, for that's the best way to win over friends and employers in a new country. Learn their music, the old traditional songs, by heart. Even singing one or two old folksongs warms their hearts when it comes from the mouth of a "foreigner".<<
I am German and would run screaming if somebody told me they were trying to get "verdeutscht". Especially if they would then sing German folk songs to me to prove it.
I do not get a bruised ego reading this blog. Quite the contrary. I rather think it is delightful, sarcastically funny, and often educating to me just the way it is.
>>they know they are not truly born-and-bred Americans, that they have no intention of changing their religion, customs or cuisine<<
I guess, you consider yourself one of those "truly born-and-bred Americans"? How can you be proud of your Irish "heritage" when at the same time you expect other immigrants to your country to give up THEIR heritage in exchange for an "American" one (whatever that is supposed to mean...)?
1. I think it is offensive to assume anyone's gender.
2. I think it is also offensive to assume that the author of this blog has any desire to flatter German readers/listeners. Why on earth should s/he do that?
3. Germany and the USA are very different in regards to immigration, "heritage", and general history. A comparison like yours might thus not make much sense.
4. How is what Germans in the USA do relevant to what the author of this blog does in Germany?
>>So there's another angle you could take to reduce a bruised ego problem: make a joke to your German listeners, tell them you're working on getting "verdeutsch" but that it's tough when you're from India. I presume your German language skills are topnotch, for that's the best way to win over friends and employers in a new country. Learn their music, the old traditional songs, by heart. Even singing one or two old folksongs warms their hearts when it comes from the mouth of a "foreigner".<<
I am German and would run screaming if somebody told me they were trying to get "verdeutscht". Especially if they would then sing German folk songs to me to prove it.
I do not get a bruised ego reading this blog. Quite the contrary. I rather think it is delightful, sarcastically funny, and often educating to me just the way it is.
>>they know they are not truly born-and-bred Americans, that they have no intention of changing their religion, customs or cuisine<<
I guess, you consider yourself one of those "truly born-and-bred Americans"? How can you be proud of your Irish "heritage" when at the same time you expect other immigrants to your country to give up THEIR heritage in exchange for an "American" one (whatever that is supposed to mean...)?
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